Provide me the legal evidence, so that I can believe, whether about Rand Cam or about JWs participating in Government talks, the real topic of this thread.
Fred E Hathaway
JoinedPosts by Fred E Hathaway
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JW's participate in Government talks with other religious bodies!
by Atlantis in(please delete if already posted).
http://www.online.ie/home/news.aspx?newsid=636132 religious bodies in talks with government.
ground-breaking talks between the government and religious bodies began in dublin today.. .
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Disfellowshipping - How long to return?
by CaptK indoes anybody know how long it takes for one to get re-instated if you are not that well liked by the body of elders?
i was disfellowshiped for immorality almost 2 years ago.
with my job and attending college to keep in step with my field of work, i have only been attending the sunday talk & wt meeting every week.
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Fred E Hathaway
Let each one serve according to spirit and truth, as the Good Book says.
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Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?
by aikichristian inmy girlfriend used to be an avid capoeira practicioner for over year.
she has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief.
she enjoyed it.. unfortunately, an article came out in the spanish version of the "watchtower" ("atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong.
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Fred E Hathaway
Back to Capoeira, aikichristian answered his own question with his opening post.
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"Trinitarians" how can you "lie" to the truth? Is truth a person?
by booker-t ini was talking to this jw's elder who i believe has to be the best debater against the "trinity" doctrine that jw's have he brought up several point which i feel needs to be addressed by trinitarians.
first of all he argured that acts 5:3-4 about lying to the holy spirit in no way makes the holy spirit a person any more that "lying to the truth" in james makes "truth" a person.
i have never seen that verse before about lying to the truth.
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Fred E Hathaway
I see that I was a little too hasty in my last reply. Yes, there is a subtle but distinct difference between Unity and Unanimity. Unity allows for change in direction with general agreement, and an objection by even one is seriously considered. Unanimity may still result, even producing an opposite result to the original general agreement. Unity and conformity are beneficial when working with properly-constituted direction.
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How did I conclude it was not the 'truth'?
by jgnat ina new board member asked me this.
i asked if it would be all right to publish my reply.
the question, in full, is, .
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Fred E Hathaway
to AK - Jeff
Please prove, using no assertions, nor pointing to any invisible and unprovable events, that the Watchtower Society was selected by Christ in or around 1919, to represent the Faithful and Discreet Slave.
I believe there to be a technical error in the statement you just provided. I believe that Jesus Christ choose the FDS and the FDS selected the GB from amongst themselves. The various legal instruments (including what you call the Watchtower Society, though there are in fact several legal entities around the world with Watchtower Society or Watch Tower Society in their names) are used by the FDS and its GB to accomplish the assignments given to them.
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Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?
by aikichristian inmy girlfriend used to be an avid capoeira practicioner for over year.
she has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief.
she enjoyed it.. unfortunately, an article came out in the spanish version of the "watchtower" ("atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong.
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Fred E Hathaway
If that's true for me, then I'd guess that all humans have the same problem. It's sin and the effects of it, after all.
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I'm a Liar
by Perry inso, i'm downtown quite early the other morning while still dark and i see a man holding an awake.
so, i pull over and wave him over.
after a few words of cordiality, i ask him why jehovah's witnesses teach that jesus returned invisibly in 1914 when jesus himself said this:in matthew 24:.
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Fred E Hathaway
I was born in a mess, to use your terminology. Understanding practical instructions from others has been a challenge, because I've only received it for about the last half of my life. Only Jehovah knows all about me. The rest of us, including me, are still trying to figure me out.
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I'm a Liar
by Perry inso, i'm downtown quite early the other morning while still dark and i see a man holding an awake.
so, i pull over and wave him over.
after a few words of cordiality, i ask him why jehovah's witnesses teach that jesus returned invisibly in 1914 when jesus himself said this:in matthew 24:.
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Fred E Hathaway
My counsellors are the writers of Holy Scripture. They are qualified by the holy spirit of Jehovah God. Living by Jehovah's principles and ways in the standard by which even your "professional counselor" will be judged by. Jehovah is the Hearer of prayer, after all. That's reality for me, no matter what consequences lie ahead.
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I'm a Liar
by Perry inso, i'm downtown quite early the other morning while still dark and i see a man holding an awake.
so, i pull over and wave him over.
after a few words of cordiality, i ask him why jehovah's witnesses teach that jesus returned invisibly in 1914 when jesus himself said this:in matthew 24:.
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Fred E Hathaway
to Who are you?
I don't consider the elders unqualified at all. Many of them have come from spiritually-sound families, which I did not. Many of them have been able to hold stable jobs for many years, even with no post-secondary education, which I have not. Many other them have had the blessing of helping others come into the truth and remain in association for many years, which I have not. Many have been through worse than I without falling victim to their own strengths, which I have not. The "professional counselor" is unacquainted with what I'm reaching for; the elders are not.
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I'm a Liar
by Perry inso, i'm downtown quite early the other morning while still dark and i see a man holding an awake.
so, i pull over and wave him over.
after a few words of cordiality, i ask him why jehovah's witnesses teach that jesus returned invisibly in 1914 when jesus himself said this:in matthew 24:.
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Fred E Hathaway
to found-my-way:
ohhhhh Fred, reading your account of the abuse you suffered just breaks my heart....
I can understand why some therapists would be irritating...there are therapists who understand how you feel about your faith, and will stick to how your childhood shaped the way you think, and was behind your behavior towards others....I can see how you were possibily starved for natural affection....and went about seeking it in an inappropriate way with others....which is understandable, since you were never taught normal interaction, and never given your own personal space and freedom. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me.
Thanks for the empathy. My situation is more complicated than that, in fact. My parents each had their own view: my dad being critical of those that would try to stand up to his incorrect world view (he always insisted on control), while my mother was too scared of losing us children to the "Government." We were in a non-demoninational Bible study group that didn't produce any of their own literature, other than personal letters, which received little circulation. One would have to have inside knowledge of the group to understand the boundaries I grew up to know.
I just hope that you can understand why so many here have left, and why we loath JW apologists' reasoning, since you cannot see the lies staring right at you, the back and forth doctrines, the lack of love, the absurd abuse requirement of 2 witnesses....which should not be the case when it comes to abuse of any sort, since abuse happens in private and behind closed doors.
I've always lived in a treacherous world. I just have a clearer idea as to what much more of the Bible is about, and I see more accountability among those who lead the flock than I did in the group I was with before. We still live in a time on the Earth when the wheat and the bearded darnel grow intermixed. Only Satan and his demons have been separated from their still-Heavenly former-associates. The spirits still have to be discerned, whatever one reads. Imperfection is still among us, so we're inclined to slips of various kinds, at all levels. Some things seem absurd in a moment of time that years later one sees as the only way that something could get rooted out properly. There's a time for everything under the Sun. "Abuse" depends a lot on the system of thought employed by the subculture(s) involved. Spiritual education and reliance on Jehovah are the only clear paths to freedom from it. Depending on perspective and personality, one person's victimization may be another one's pleasure. There are sado-masochists, after all. Alcoholism and other forms of drug dependency is another form. Political debates and mind games is another. Violent sports is another....
I hope you know that I care about you as a person, and that my love isn't conditional. It isn't based on whether or not you go to meetings. It isn't based on whether or not you even have a belief in God. It is purely based on the fact that you are a fellow human being. No strings attached. No conditions.
You will not find that in the organization, Fred, no matter how much they claim they have that love. By their fruits, they prove that they do not have God's backing or spirit. They have hurt so many people, not just a few, THOUSANDS. If God was behind this organization, God would not allow such heartless men in Brooklyn to bear His name and drag it through the mud as the WTBTS has, and tell outright LIES to its followers.
They are the Pharisees that Jesus soundly rebuked. The burden they place on the brothers and sisters is HEAVY, not kindly and light, like Jesus's yoke.
I wish you could see that.....
I have been shaped by my associations, as you have by yours. Love, to me, isn't acceptance. If it was, I'd accept Satan and his abusive world or much of it. To me, love is acting in harmony with Jehovah God's view, His principles of right and wrong, His knowledge of our varying motives and qualities, His knowledge of our abilities to change and to make different choices than we are used to. I think of Jehovah as the Master artist — we see His systems that produce a never-ending array of clouds and new sunrises/sunsets and lightning and seasons that change our surroundings — sometimes in ways we like, sometimes in ways we might not.
We humans are all like a bunch of toddlers in comparison, forever distracted from the bigger picture with our petty peeves/arguments, even as Jesus' apostles were before Jesus died. Yet, after persecution, with the help of holy spirit, the apostles matured, as can we.